YOU DO WHAT FOR A LIVING? A behind the scenes look at two very creative professions: A comedy writer/actor and a children's toy designer.

Coko Galore seems to have been born with an extra funny bone in her body and she proves it every night when she appears on the stage of second city Toronto.  

Kurt Scanlan, meanwhile, has managed to turn his childhood passion for playing with toys into a full time career.  They both provide us with an entertaining account of how it all came about.

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Transcript

0:06

Welcome to Hidden Gems Toronto, the podcast that introduces you to a variety of fascinating people and places that fly under the radar, but are a vital part of our city's fabric. I'm your host, urban geographer, Tom Scanlon, and I invite you to don your virtual hiking boots and join us as we track down these compelling stories.

Sharon 0:31

Hello everyone. And welcome to our final podcast of 2000. And 24. And what better way to wrap up the year than. To do another episode in our ongoing series, which we affectionately call. Paul you do what for a living. We have invited two very creative. People on the show to talk about their careers. Our first guest. Coco galore gets paid. Well to make people laugh. And. And there's no better proof that she has made her mark than the fact that she is now starring. At Toronto's home for comedy. The illustrious second city. And I guess you could say our second guest isn't as somewhat related field. He may not make you laugh, but he sure knows how to put a smile on people's faces. Especially young children. And that's because Kurt Scanlon makes his. Living designing toys for kids. They both provided us with. An insider view of their unusual occupations. We hope you enjoy it. First up is Coco-Cola.

Tom 1:32

Hello, Coco, and welcome to the podcast.

Coko 1:34

Hi, thanks for having me.

Tom 1:37

I gotta tell you, I'm so excited to talk with you. You know, I'm almost tempted to start by saying, let's give Coco a break. You don't have to be funny during this interview. But is that possible for you?

Coko 1:50

think so.

Tom 1:51

Well, I guess we'll find out, eh?

Coko 1:53

Yes.

Tom 1:55

But let me say, having said that, when you aren't performing, and you're hanging out with your friends, or you meet new people, is there a bit of pressure on you? Do you feel like, oh my God, I have to be funny?

Coko 2:06

No, I mean, the reality is that most of my friends are also comedians. And if they're not comedians, they are just naturally funny people. I think humor is just such a part of my life that I don't feel the pressure. I feel like we all are just naturally funny. So then it's just a good time.

Tom 2:23

Oh, that's fantastic. I'd love to hang out with that group sometime.

Coko 2:26

You gotta come through.

Tom 2:28

So, what about when you meet someone new, and they know you because you're on Second City, what's the most common question you get asked?

Coko 2:36

Oh, um, can you tell me a joke right now?

Tom 2:40

Oh, yeah. See, that goes back to my point. Oh, she's gotta be funny.

Coko 2:45

Yeah, that's for like strangers and people I don't really know and people that are kind of just like coming into my life. Yeah, there's always this kind of like, can you tell me a joke?

Tom 2:55

Well, I have a lot of questions for you, and hopefully there'll be a little bit better than that, Coco.

Coko 3:01

people don't last long, so

Tom 3:02

yeah. Okay. Well, let's maybe take me back a bit. when you were a kid, was there kind of a one moment when you started to say to yourself, Huh, you know what? I can make people laugh.

Coko 3:14

No, I didn't really understand that I could do comedy as a profession until I was much older. I was really just focused on the performance of it all, like just acting, singing, dancing. And then later on, it was an instructor who was like, I think you should, think about doing comedy. And I was like, huh? I was really stunned. Didn't even know there was a whole kind of like educational division dedicated to comedy. Yeah.

Tom 3:46

So did you like go to study comedy?

Coko 3:48

Yeah. so then I, went to, second city and took improv and that's how it all kind of started. And then it was hard to understand. Okay, there's funny, but what is my funny? So then I had to develop that skill set.

Tom 4:04

That's interesting. I mean, I should remind people I guess that you're not just a comedian, I mean you have so many other things. You're an actor on some major television shows, you've, Written comedy sketches for This Hour is 22 Minutes. you were the artistic director for the Bad Dog Comedy Theater. I most people would just focus on a single career path, but I'm wondering, is there a synergy because you do so many things? does being a comedian on stage make you a better writer because you know what it's like to have to deliver that line?

Coko 4:35

Oh, absolutely. And I think very specifically being an improviser comedian, cause that second city we do sketch to improv. So that skill set itself really does make you a better writer because then, you know, that. When you're writing dialogue, for example, you're looking for the natural banter, what would come out instinctually. You kind of put yourself in the character's shoes a little bit easier, I think, in order to, uh, write those lines.

Tom 5:03

you said you learned how to, perform like that. I comedy's complex, I think, and I mean you've conducted workshops yourself teaching improv and comedy in general. So you obviously feel that you can teach someone to be funny, but don't we have to at least have a modicum of humor in your makeup? we can't all be coco galore, can we?

Coko 5:23

I think that we all have our own brand of comedy. The very specific, workshops that I used to teach was how to hone someone's authentic, humor. Like their. very specific brand, how to bring that out. Oftentimes I think people think there's a formula and there is to an extent, but there's also things that make you naturally funny that I think a lot of people dismiss. And so, the classes that I used to teach was very specifically based on that, actually. Yeah. So it just made me laugh because I was like, yes, that's what I do.

Tom 5:57

So you're, bringing the humor out of people, tell them to be themselves, just, hey, that's, yeah, right, okay,

Coko 6:03

Yeah. Because a lot of times, if you like to people watch, if you're sitting in a coffee shop, if you're sitting on the subway, things happen naturally that are funny that people don't mean it to be.

Tom 6:14

isn't that the key to Second City? you, you just pick these small items that you notice in life and you can run with it.

Coko 6:22

yeah, exactly. I think part of the skill set of being a comedian is noticing and observing is like really being like, Oh, that's funny. I think a person who's not a comedic performer, just. maybe doesn't notice that, they might just go about their day and not realize that that moment was funny, but it'll be funny to us. And then once you bring it out, and you put a spotlight on it, then everybody's like, oh yeah, that is, that is funny actually.

Tom 6:50

Well, I, we really noticed that in your most recent show, but, we'll, we'll get to that in a bit. but I wanna talk about Second City, when you think of all the comedians that have appeared in the past, it's kind of staggering. Do you feel that's a little intimidating or is it more of an inspiration knowing that people like. Catherine O'Hara, Eugene Levy, Gilda Radner. They've all been on that stage.

Coko 7:11

Yeah, it's intimidating and inspiring. I would say that kind of fear, but also goal setting is what pushes you forward. But I think you also have to remember to just really Stay on your own personal course. Like I'm not going to have the same path as Gilda Radner or Catherine O'Hara. You know what I mean? So, but I do watch their work or see where they've gone and see the work that they've churned out and be like, Oh, that's, that's really cool. I can do something to that level, you know, if I push myself.

Tom 7:45

Well, let me tell you, so we went to see you last week. Your show called All Messed Up and Nowhere to Go, and I don't know what to say, Coke, other than it's just so damn funny. And, and not to pump your tires, but I think you got the biggest applause of the night for a short scene where you imitate being a food blender. I mean, Coco, without you saying a word, you had the audience in stitches. I sometimes think we underestimate the physicality and how you can use it in a scene like that to make people laugh.

Coko 8:19

Yes. Yes. I, I love performing that scene so, so much. So, so much. Yeah.

Tom 8:29

Well, you first started, say, rehearsing for a new show like this one, you have all your lines, but does the show evolve and change with each rehearsal? And even after opening night, I know there's a lot of improv, so that has to change, but does even the set sketches change over time or on a given night?

Coko 8:46

Yeah. So we go through this thing called what we call process. It's like a 10 to 12 week period where what we do is we come and we tell the audience this we come up with nuggets of ideas, like, Hey, isn't a blender kind of sexy a little bit though? You know, like an idea like that, uh, for example. And then you improvise it in front of the audience. In fact, the audience is really the one who dictates their show, because if they like it, then we move it forward and we keep honing it with their laughter as our meter of what works, what doesn't work. Like if they don't laugh at a joke continuously, we take it out.

Tom 9:29

Okay,

Coko 9:29

Yeah. So that's kind of how we develop all of the sketches. There's no sitting down and writing. We are really going through it night after night on stage, remembering what we the night before, remembering what we have to take out. Obviously we have a director and we get notes. so that's how we come to write the show. And. By the time we open, the show is pretty set because most of our sketches have been tried and true in front of an audience. but of course, over time, things also start changing a little bit. You might say a line very differently. Uh, you might, take out pauses. there are natural evolutions that continue to happen, even though the sketch is pretty set. And also, We have to adapt to what's happening in the news. if there's something that we wrote that two months later, just something in the news that's going on that counters it, we have to take it out.

Tom 10:23

So, I mean, just to go back to the blender, it started maybe as, oh, that's a sexy idea, we'll try that, and you did something simple and then you made it more complicated and got a better reaction.

Coko 10:33

that's exactly it. I came up with this idea of aren't kitchen appliances, kind of sexy in the way that they swirl and they whirl. that was the original nugget. And then, I performed it and it worked. And then I continued to craft it. the choreography changed according to things that I wanted to express in the, sketch. Yeah.

Tom 10:56

hope this makes people want to go see it because it's really funny.

Coko 10:59

y'all got to come and see this blender.

Tom 11:02

That's right. Well, one of the things that makes Second City so special is that after the show, and the show that has required a lot of mental alertness and timing and You move at such a rapid pace, the show is over. Then you take a short break and come out and do another round of improv. I mean, on some nights, don't you just want to say no mass. I'm exhausted. Not tonight. Thank you.

Coko 11:26

Uh, absolutely. We want to, but you know, what's the fun thing is that those are the nights that the improv sets are usually the best.

Tom 11:36

Ah,

Coko 11:37

So it's like, you don't want to, it's kind of like going to the gym. You don't want to, you're like, I don't want to, but you feel great after. The nights that we're so super tired as an ensemble and you come out and do the improv set, those are the nights that the improv set usually really rock. And I think it's because those are the nights that you don't really think too much. You're just all instincts. yeah,

Tom 12:02

I was impressed at how few people left. they stayed. I mean, there was a brief break, but, people could have gone home, but they didn't.

Coko 12:09

yes, a lot of people are here for the improv set. They will watch the, 90 minute sketch show. And they're like, that was really great. I love the improv because they can't conceive the idea of doing 15 minutes on stage with no plan

Tom 12:25

Well, I don't know if you can tell us how the, sausage is made, but it seems so seamless. is there, Some tricks to how to pull off a good improv?

Coko 12:35

practice.

Tom 12:36

Okay.

Coko 12:36

that's really it. It's just practice because, we really don't plan anything out. I think with us, it's a couple of things as an ensemble. We work really well. We really like each other. Um, And we really support each other's ideas. So if Christian is like, I want to go to the moon, I might be like, how far are we going? You know, as opposed to no, we're staying here on earth. It's more like, how far are we going? How are we getting there? We all kind of encourage each other's funny, and that's really nice. I love working with this ensemble so much. I think it shows on stage how much we like improvising together. But there is no plan,

Tom 13:13

Well, further to that point, this one thing that struck me while I was watching the improv was, there was a scene you had done, you're saying you're off on the sidelines, right, and someone else, maybe Chris, had taken over and they're doing their thing. And I'm, I'm looking at you, and I assume you're busy thinking about what you're going to do next, but you, At one point, just started to laugh out loud, kind of bending over at something he had said. So, how the hell do you enjoy the show, and you're also know in the next minute, I have to be really clever?

Coko 13:44

Yeah, when you're on the sidelines, I'm not necessarily thinking about what I'm gonna do next. I'm more watching the scene so I do get to enjoy it along with the audience. we also like to make each other laugh. I am the one who breaks first, always.

Tom 14:04

yeah, yeah, it was noticeable. Ha, ha, ha,

Coko 14:08

Yes, I often, um, audiences would be like, I like it when you laugh. I'm like, great. Thank you. please don't tell my boss.

Tom 14:17

ha, tell them I'm thinking of what my next line's

Coko 14:20

Yes. And I was just smiling. when we're on the sidelines, we're often just, watching the scene, enjoying it, and also simultaneously thinking of how we might be able to contribute to the scene that's existing. we don't necessarily think about what to do in the next scene because I might walk on stage and, Scott might walk on stage and. he might say something and it changes the idea of what the scene might be. So you don't, you don't really have that element of control of this is what I'm going to do when I get on stage. because there are other people and you can't read their minds.

Tom 14:58

Oh, such fun. And this is a bit of a sidebar, but another aspect of the show that I don't think gets enough credit is the fact that many of the sketches kind of poke fun at Toronto, or some of them do at least, and, but you do it in such a playful way, it almost makes the audience feel proud to live here. It's, it's kind of like we're in on the joke. is there some truth in that?

Coko 15:20

Yeah, because we love Toronto, but we also know, we're a little bit pretentious. We know that, but we also love the city. It's kind of like just the idea of making fun of yourself. if you're not going to make fun of yourself, really, honestly, who is, I mean, I guess other people, but it's always fun to make fun of yourself so that people understand that it's not that serious.

Tom 15:41

Fantastic. Well, we sometimes end a podcast by asking, what do people like most about living in Toronto? How do you answer that?

Coko 15:48

Oh my God. You know what? I love the food. I love the food because I feel like Toronto has this thing where it's not a westernized or a Toronto version of said food. It is an authentic version of said food. So if you're having Northern Thai cuisine, that's what you're actually because that's where the recipes are coming from. That's where the chef comes from. And I love that about Toronto. I've I've lived in other places and traveled and I just find that Toronto does that the best, we allow people to really be themselves.

Tom 16:23

Fantastic. So, Coco, you're in a crazy business. Is there a long term plan for you? I mean, is comedy More like playing checkers, you do one step at a time, or are you a chess master and you have a plan for where you're going next?

Coko 16:39

I don't know yet where I'm going next. My hope is that I can start to put together all of the skill sets that I've acquired. through my career. So like the writing and the directing and the acting and being able to do by project based rather than continuously dividing the skillset. that make sense?

Tom 17:01

It does, and you wrapped it up beautifully. It'll be fun to watch where you're going next, and in the meantime, we can come down and watch you at Second City. And you

Coko 17:09

Yes,

Tom 17:10

you do other things,

Coko 17:11

I do other things.

Tom 17:13

Coco, thank you so much. It's been so much fun for me, and thank you for being such a gem, and for, I think, helping make Toronto be A more interesting place to live in. So

Coko 17:23

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

Kurt 17:30

uh, we would do a thing that was, like a get to know me kind of thing with a lot of the people had been in the toy industry for, you know, like 30, 40 years. And it's basically just a little lunchtime meeting where they're like, you know, here's some pictures of me as a three year old, here's my favorite toy and sort of their paths and what inspires them and things they've worked on, what they learned from those projects. Having seen five or six of those, like every single one, I was like, me too, me too,

Tom 17:58

Hello, Kurt and welcome to the podcast.

Kurt 18:00

Thanks so much for having me.

Tom 18:01

I guess a crit, I should start with a little disclosure. There is a reason why we have the same last name and that's because I'm proud to say you are my nephew, but Hey, we are at the CBC here, so we don't let a relationship. Get in the way of a good story. And you Curt Rudy do. Have an interesting story to tell. Let's start with this. What reaction do you get from people? When you tell him that you design children's toys for a living.

Kurt 18:28

People are always excited to hear that. they light up. they go, Oh my God, of course somebody had to design those

Tom 18:35

ha, yes.

Kurt 18:36

most of my, my close friends know, what I do now, but when I started doing that, they were all like, of course, of course, this is what you do. This makes total sense. that was kind of my reaction too, is I've been doing this my whole life, but I just realized that I could get paid for it. Later on in life.

Tom 18:51

Really? So, I want to go back to when you were a young kid growing up, were you already kind of doodling and playing with things and creating toys?

Kurt 18:58

Yeah. I was always, drawing and yeah, like building my own things, creating arts and crafts, that kind of stuff. That was always, always a passion of mine. And uh, you know, I was the only child, so I had to, find something to do that was a little bit more. I couldn't just play with my brothers or sisters. So I had to come up with my own stuff.

Tom 19:13

Well, it kind of worked out, eh?

Kurt 19:15

I think that's actually really helped in terms of trying to figure out how to, create fun, from the things in front of you.

Tom 19:20

And you know, I think a lot of people think, oh, it's so easy to do. I mean, do your friends often approach you and say, Hey Kurt, I've got this great idea for a toy. How do I get this into production?

Kurt 19:31

Friends, not so much, no, but yeah, lots of people do have ideas. Yeah. It's, it's surprisingly hard to get success in that industry. So, you know, a lot of these ideas are great ideas, but it's, not so easy to actually launch a toy.

Tom 19:44

So say I want to be a Kurt Scanlon. I want to do what you do for a living. what path do I take so I can have a business card that says Tom Scanlon, designer of children's toys.

Kurt 19:55

Uh, so I went to, Umber college for industrial design. and actually specialize in automotive design, but you can do product or automotive. It's the same core skills. Most of the same courses, just your studio courses are a little different. but yeah, you would do, product design as your, your main thing. And then you do a thesis project and you hope You get something right after school.

Tom 20:17

I know you worked for a number of years with a large toy design company, and I'm kind of curious to know. how does a new toy come to fruition? I'm guessing they don't, lock you in a room and say, Kurt, you can't come out until you have an idea of a toy that's better than the Cabbage Pat Kids or something, but can you walk me through, from start to finish, how does a new toy come about?

Kurt 20:41

so we get ideas from just about anywhere. A lot of the most innovative stuff actually comes from toy inventors. So these are people who this is all they do is come up with new stuff. They're always looking at new technologies and how to incorporate that into toys, new materials, any trends. And you know, we're doing that internally as well. And then there's this sort of collaboration where sometimes a really incredible idea will come in from an inventor, or sometimes it comes internally. and then from that nugget of an idea, it comes into a larger toy company, and then it starts to get massaged and noodled. And oftentimes we work very closely with the inventors at this stage. So. they'll show us a model of, you know, a back flipping dog or something, and we'll say, that's great. But what if I had light up eyes? And then we, we go back and forth With the inventor, to try to come up with a prototype that we're a little bit happier with, and we're always adjusting the play pattern, the theming, you know, maybe it's not a dog, maybe it's an octopus. So the things change from, from that nugget and idea. Sometimes It's not even recognizable by the end of it, but that's, the process is long and

Tom 21:50

Yeah, yeah.

Kurt 21:50

so we're, and we're constantly pitching those things internally. So you have lots of different reviews where you're reviewing that initial concept, then you're reviewing your take on that concept, uh, the more in depth play pattern, and then, a more finished model that we can actually demonstrate, you know, a little play through of something. And if all of those things go well, then there are toy fairs, twice a year. The bigger items would be in the fall toy fair because we're, we're ramping up for Christmas the next year. It's a long development cycle. and then we tried to get sell in to, buyers from all the larger retail stores

Tom 22:25

I mean, you're getting the buy in before you've manufactured a ton of them. Is that the

Kurt 22:29

Yes, yeah, you have to because I guess you could do it on your own but that would be an amazingly huge gamble. So we have to get the thumbs up from these buyers and for better or worse. something can die at any point. you have to treat these things like they're your babies. But then when it gets dropped, which often happens, then you have to just sort of shrug and move on and say, well, like, what's the next project, but, uh, so it keeps on going until you get to the buyers. The buyers will give you an idea of quantities of how much they're actually interested in, and then you, you ramp up your manufacturing to meet those demands.

Tom 23:04

Wow, I you have focus groups somewhere along the line that you test these things out? Do you bring in kids and things like

Kurt 23:09

Yeah, there's, the classic, to a mirror with the kids playing. and then that's so insightful just, on several levels, you can see if they can even do the thing that you're hoping that they can do, or if they think it's fun, if they think it's cool, you know, kids aren't shy, they'll tell you what they think. So I think that's so important to get that feedback throughout the process. you want to get it early on to see if you're going in the right direction and then keep on checking in throughout the process.

Tom 23:35

Well, from what I've read, I think there's as many failures as there are successes. as you say, you come up with this idea. It seems good. It's moving along, but then just like that, it can be dropped

Kurt 23:46

It's probably way, way, way, I think it's like 10%. but you know, of, of an idea that comes in only a fraction of those make it to shelf and of the things that make it to shelf, only a fraction are successful. So just cause it went out the door, I mean, that is a big step. And then it's in the hands of consumers, but there's so many things that can go wrong because. maybe you get it in and it's, it's not as magical as it seemed, or there's a safety problem where they're like, wow, we thought we could include this material, but it turns out that's, that's not an option. And the item scuppered or your costs are just generally too high. You know, it's a great item. it would be so amazing if we could sell that for 30 and you're like, but how much is it going to be if we make it? Well, 70, so nobody's going to pay that much And then, maybe there's another competitive item that comes out around the same time, and that's always bad, because sometimes it does really well, and then you're like, well, I guess they've sort of cornered the market there, or it does really poorly, and then people say, ah, well, I guess, you know, kangaroos don't sell, and now your item has to pivot. So, yeah, is stacked against you,

Tom 24:48

That's interesting. What you said about competition during the whole developmental process. Is there an expectation of secrecy among the team? I'm guessing. You aren't going to parties and telling people about your latest project. Do you keep everything close to the vest?

Kurt 25:04

there's a lot of, NDAs being signed and there's any of the larger events when we're, you know, presenting to our sales team or things like that it's all very tightly controlled. and it's, it's so funny too, because people always are like, Hey, what's the next big thing that you're working on? And I'm like, I know that you're probably not scout for some rival, but I can't tell

Tom 25:23

No, you tell me, I tell somebody.

Kurt 25:25

And it seems so silly, right? Because, you know, at the end of the day, what are we trying to do? We're trying to, make kids smile and laugh. But it's also, it's big business. So, if you're first to market, then there's a huge advantage there.

Tom 25:36

Kurt, do you find, even when you're not at work Are you thinking about toys? say you're in the middle of watching the Leafs lose a hockey game. are ideas coming to you from all over the place and at any given time?

Kurt 25:49

Yeah. I really love what I do. And it means that you are kind of thinking about it to some degree all the time. Whether it's, you know, consciously at the front of your head, or even, I've woken up in the middle of night with a new idea and it's not always, you know, the next big toy, it might just be like an aspect that we're trying to deal with, you know, there's an engineering challenge or a play pattern issue. And, and, you know, it's been sort of bugging me all day and then I'll wake up in the middle of night and be like, wait a minute, I got something here. so yeah, it's always going in there.

Tom 26:16

So it must be fun to show up at work in the morning. You've got this idea while you're sleeping. And you can bring it to a creative group that won't just dismiss it, right? I I imagine there's a fair bit of respect among people around the table. I mean, I imagine there's a fair bit of respect among people around the table. Because you're all, trying to run the oars in the same direction.

Kurt 26:33

Yeah. Yeah, the the people in the industry are awesome. When I first started it was like my first week and I was like, okay, I think I found my people here

Tom 26:41

that's wonderful.

Kurt 26:41

yeah, I worked other jobs, but it was a little bit less. I'm all like, silly, jovial, you know, at the end of the day, that's what we're working towards. So it does give you license to be a little bit, sillier around the office too. But, any idea could be a good idea, we don't shut down ideas from any sort.

Tom 26:56

I know you have a 3-year-old son, Kurt, and I'm wondering is he providing you with some new perspective on what kids like to play with? could he be fodder for the next great idea?

Kurt 27:06

Yeah, absolutely. he loves toys like really, really loves toys. and he's at the point now where he's starting to get pretty attached to certain toys and the way that he plays with them is different from toy to toy. And I'm just trying to write it all down because it's so interesting. And that's the way I was when I was a kid too. I really love my toys. But yeah, it's so funny to remember, you know, at what age he can do this, what age that is too difficult for him, at what age he's like, I just don't care about that. I want to do this other thing 50 times in a row. I'm like, okay, fair.

Tom 27:37

But you, you learn from that, right? Just by watching him.

Kurt 27:39

yeah, absolutely.

Tom 27:40

Kurt, I watched an interview with another, toy designer, and he said one of the most rewarding moments of his career was watching a kid in a park playing with a toy that he had been part of the team that designed it. I has that ever happened to you in any fashion, where you get to see the results of your work?

Kurt 27:58

Yeah. it's amazing. Like you'll see, people playing with something you designed I saw something in a yard sale and you know, at this point it's already been used, loved you could tell it was sort of beat up and I was like, that's had some, that's had some use. Somebody played with that for quite a while and that just made me so happy Because you put, it takes so long and it is so hard to get it out there that when you see how much joy it brings to people, then it really, you know, of course that was all worthwhile.

Tom 28:25

Now, Kurt, do you run up to that kid and say, you know I am part of the team that designed that toy? Yeah.

Kurt 28:30

I fought the temptation to do that. even if I'm in like, you know, like a Walmart or something and you walk down the aisle and there's something that's there, I always have to go check out the aisle. That's actually a big part of our job too, is, is understanding the competitive landscape. So, you know, you got to check out the Walmart toilet and then somebody be looking at something that you designed and I've fought the temptation to just be like, you know, I worked on that

Tom 28:51

He must take some real pride in that Curt, I mean, seeing your work on display in the public area like that. Terrific. You know, technology's really changing the landscape, I guess in a lot of ways, where do you see toys going in the next five to ten years?

Kurt 29:06

Yeah, that's a tough one because screens are cheaper than they've ever been. They're everywhere. it's very hard to compete with screens because you have sort of unlimited possibilities in there. There's instant feedback. There's a very smart, expensive computer, you know, helping you play games or anything like that. And, media like TV shows are, are more addictive for kids than ever. So I think. The competitive advantage that toy still has though, is that, we can do things that are tactile and we can use different materials and there's all these sensations that screens can't provide. So, one item that I worked on is called bitsy and it's, sort of a computer game, but it's also tactile and that you can actually touch the little creature. Inside and something you actually hold in your hand, which is a bit different than an iPad. so I think we're going to see more and more bridging between toy and tech. Um, but then I think we're also going to see this movement in the other direction where, things like kinetic sand or, the slime is still, you know, continued to be popular. And it's just, sort of the opposite of a screen there's no tech at all. And it's just like, yeah, but this is kind of squishy and fun to play with.

Tom 30:14

what's interesting about the tactile, I know, when I go into Mastermind, I still see the Rubik's Cube, and, and they're still selling, and that's nothing but sitting there and moving things around, but using your mind, too.

Kurt 30:26

Yeah. it's a, like a classic puzzle, but it's, purely tactile, really.

Tom 30:30

Kurt, what do you think, back to you being a kid, what was your favorite toy?

Kurt 30:34

man, I had this one dinosaur that was a big fan of a T Rex that I, I think I got it at a museum or something, but that was my, my main one for a while. And you know, my parents kept a lot of my toys and I was actually able to give that dinosaur to Kai

Tom 30:47

Oh, wonderful.

Kurt 30:48

and yeah, just seeing him enjoy it the same way that I did is awesome. Yeah. That'd probably my, my first number, any Lego, I was a big Lego kid.

Tom 30:56

When I think back to my childhood, I gotta say my favorite toy was very simple. It was the slinky. And I think today it's still my favorite toy Well, listen, Kurt, I have no idea what you're gonna come up with next. I kind of hope you get my name at Christmas, so I get whatever it is. Whatever you end up doing, I, I think it's going to be fascinating to see you move along and, I'll watch really carefully and really interesting to know what you come up with next. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Kurt 31:25

Yeah. Appreciate you having me on. It's such an honor.

Tom 31:30

Our next podcast will air on January 1st. 2025. New years is typically a time to review the past. So we've decided. Good to track down some of the guests that appeared on our podcast four years. We were curious to know how things have changed for them since we last. I chatted and to see what they're up to today. We've lined up four different. Previous guests. And not surprisingly. Each of them has an interesting. Story to tell. It will be a fun way to spend new year's day. And. Lastly, we want to give out another of our DECA the week. So. Have you ever wanted to see a first-class orchestra, but thought it might be. A little too expensive. Well, wait no longer. I want to give. Give a shout out to a group. Called the Toronto community. Orchestra. This group of 64, very talented. Musicians. Puts on a concert every December. Featuring classical. And seasonal music. It takes place at the east end United. United at three 10 dad, fourth avenue on Tuesday, December. 10th. And I can tell you from firsthand experience. You will be astounded at the quality of the music. Beta. Beethoven himself would be proud. And the icing on the cake. Well, it's absolutely free. Although donations. Are accepted and appreciated. You can learn more by. Visiting their site, Toronto community orchestra. Dot org. And if you do go keep an eye on the string section. You just might catch. Are interrupted, hidden gems, editor, Sharon. Playing the violin. thanks for listening. And we'll see you in 2025.