Hidden Gems Toronto

COMPASSION HAS NO BORDERS...Saving Animals Around the World.

• Tom and Sharon Scanlan • Season 4 • Episode 6

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Veterinarian Dr. Cliff Redford and his daughter Emily, have travelled internationally on a singular mission: Rescue as many animals in life-threatening situations as possible. Their adventures abroad have been documented in an award-winning film entitled, Dr. Cliff Worldwide Vet. This film chronicles in riveting fashion, their rescue operations across the Globe. The film also captures the special bond that a father and daughter have made in doing this work as a team. It's a remarkable story that Dr. Cliff elaborates on in a very engaging fashion in this interview. 

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Tom:

Welcome to Hidden Gems Toronto, the podcast that introduces you to a variety of fascinating people and places that fly under the radar, but are a vital part of our city's fabric. I'm your host, urban Geographer, Tom Scanlon, and I invite you to dawn your virtual hiking boots and join us as we track down these compelling stories.

Sharon:

On our last podcast, we interviewed Rod Spindler, who we described as someone who thinks globally in terms of the environment, but acts locally cleaning up the ravine in his own backyard. on this podcast, We are going to turn the tables a bit and introduce you to someone who honed his medical skills locally, but is now applying them globally. Dr. Cliff Redford is a veterinarian with a very successful practice in the GTA, but his real claim to fame is the work he has undertaken. saving animals in the wild on the international stage. His experiences have been chronicled in an award-winning documentary called Dr. Cliff Worldwide vet from alligators to monkeys to trap dogs. He has saved and operated on them all, but what makes his experience even more compelling is that his daughter, Emily teams up with him on these adventures. This dynamic duo has formed a special bond that makes this story all the more remarkable. We caught up with Dr. Cliff shortly after his documentary aired on TBO. This episode is called Compassion Has No Borders. We start with a short excerpt from a promotional piece for his documentary.

Trailer:

Arthur? See if you can pick up a heartbeat. The reality is we do see animals pass away in front of our eyes sometimes. And that can be really hard, and knowing that there's not really more that you can do. Call her Heidi since she's our first female rescue from hydro bed. The tail's wagging. I don't think we'll ever stop doing these trips, You know, any daughter would be so lucky to be able to say, you know, they get to go travel the world with their dad. Like saving animals' lives. I love what I do and, and every animal deserves a chance, but I'm never gonna quit.

Tom:

Hello, cliff and welcome to the podcast.

Cliff:

Hey, thanks for having me.

Tom:

cliff, Let me start by saying congrats to you and your daughter, Emily, on your superb documentary, Dr. Cliff Worldwide. Vet it, it's just a remarkable tribute to the work you're doing, and we'll get into all that. But I recognize you did have a life before the film was made, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you probably loved animals as a kid growing up. did you know at a young age that. Working with animals in some capacity was in the courage for you.

Cliff:

I wasn't actually sure. I was one of the few sort of veterinarian students in my class that didn't know from, you know, when I was 10 years old sort of thing. but, it was definitely on, the list. I Contemplated veterinarian, but I actually really wanted to be a marine biologist or a science teacher, or a police officer. but the finding is, is when I got into vet school, and social media took off, and years later I. I had teachers from primary school and junior high reach out to me and say, we always knew you'd be a veterinarian. So they knew before I did. I was always the kid taking care of the class bunny rabbit, and I would do show and tell instead of, talking about a toy, I'd bring in a feather that I found and talk about the bird or something like that. So

Tom:

it seems like you made the right decision. I can say that for sure, Yeah, I can, I can tell. And so do your, clients, the reviews you get are outstanding, but, after vet school, what did your career take you?

Cliff:

Yeah, I very quickly, uh, ended up buying my own clinic. I bought my clinic a year and a half out of vet school. and I had gotten through vet school a little quicker than most. I was only 24 when I graduated. I'm a bit of, an overachiever, I guess. I. And I also realized, although I enjoyed my previous jobs working at clinics, I didn't really have much business working for somebody else, so I needed to buy a clinic very quickly. So we just celebrated our 25th, anniversary. Yeah.

Tom:

Wow. So you had this thriving practice, things are going really well, but you decide to start this new venture of rescuing animals in distress. was there a singular event that made you think, Hey, I can do this, or what brought this on?

Cliff:

Definitely not a singular event. So about 13 years ago, on a whim, I reached out to, It would've been, Rogers community TV up in New Market. And I did a call in vet show, a live call in vet show called Your Pet Your Vet for a Year. Loved it. And the TV bugs sort of bit me. So actually, these travels and this volunteer work started out as much as to sort of get footage to create sizzle reels because I wanted to pitch this adventure travel TV show, but. I ended up falling in love with the volunteer work and the wildlife work, and so started volunteering at a wildlife place, which was only supposed to be for six months, but six and a half years later, I'm still there every Thursday. so that's sort of how it, developed and although I've always loved my career, Working with wildlife and doing this volunteer travel has added a new passion to it and it's really turned into my sort of lifelong calling in the sense of I know I'm gonna be traveling and volunteering. when I retire, which I don't know when that's gonna be. if ever, uh, I know I'm gonna be traveling and volunteering.

Tom:

when you first started, did you start rescuing animals here at home or did you start right away on the road?

Cliff:

I sort of started right away on the road. I mean, any veterinarian who owns their own clinic has to rescue the occasional animal that comes in. But, my first trip would be, almost nine years ago, to Jamaica. I. And I think on the second day I was there, I ended up having to do surgery on an American crocodile. I had to remove its eye. I had no experience with wild animals, with birds, with reptiles, certainly none with, 80 pound reptiles that could bite my finger off. but I loved it. It was so much fun and, I was able to learn from the technicians and the non veterinarians, which is I think, a key to my success is to keep my mouth shut and, listen to, uh, everybody as much as possible. from then on, it just started to become travel, travel, travel as much as I could.

Tom:

So how, frequently do you go and when you do go, how long do you go for?

Cliff:

I go at least once a year, but, it's often two to three times a year. it depends, honestly, sometimes it depends on finances'cause I finance everything myself.

Tom:

Wow.

Cliff:

yeah. Yeah. I feel weird, asking for money and I don't, Do this with any sort of other charities. I did raise money when, I went to Ukraine for the two times. but all that money went to the different rescues and we're incredibly successful raising a lot of money for that. But, yeah, I'll go, I'll go a couple of times a year. I mean, there was one year. finishing off with my second trip to Ukraine, where in 12 months, I was away for about nine weeks in total. most of my trips are a minimum week and a half. Jamaica. My first trip was three weeks.

Tom:

you got this all going on. How did the idea of doing a documentary come about? Yeah, so again, I was, pitching really hard to, broadcasters, all the big ones here in, Canada as well as some in the us and I was working with production companies that were developing sort of the pitch, kind of cleaning it up. I came really, really close a couple of times. we actually got verbally green lit, by one of the big ones here in Canada. And then, you know, the industry changes, things change. And I had been talking with my friend Diego, who's the producer and director of the documentary. He kind of kept saying We should just do a film and get it into film festivals. and then the joke is when I went to Ukraine the second time, life can be short when you go to Ukraine because you might get hit with a missile, which almost So when I came back, I decided to roll the dice. I took out a mortgage on my house, a second mortgage, and, You are so crazy.

Cliff:

and did this film. And, I don't think it's gonna pay, itself back, not even close, but we're super proud of the, film that we created.

Tom:

Well, I'm sure you hoped it would be a good educational film and all that, but I. Did you ever imagine, you've won at least nine international film awards and now the documentary is being aired on tv. Oh, that's a major accomplishment.

Cliff:

Yeah, we're pretty happy. I mean, I, I knew it was gonna be really good. I had been working with Diego just casually, for a couple of years, and he's so talented and he put together this great crew to film the, the Canadian, portion of the film, which was done several years before we went to India, which is the primary, story of the, documentary. So I knew his skills, and I knew we would. Come up with some amazing, cases and amazing stories. But when I saw even the rough edit, a couple of months after we returned from India, I teared up. I was not anticipating that. And even though we had, I. made this decision that we were not gonna make this like a simple television show, even though that's sort of its purpose to act, like a pilot. we decided to hire a, award-winning crew in India who had done national geographic style documentaries. We decided to hire a very skilled, music composer, very skilled in experience so. I took on all the expenses to create a really, really good film that could stand on its own. I knew it was gonna be good, but I had no idea it was gonna be this, this. Nice.

Tom:

Well, why do you think it's resonating so much with people? Because it really is.

Cliff:

Yeah. I think a lot of reasons. First of all, there's nothing out there like it if you're looking for a veterinarian sort of film or documentary or television show. There's nothing out there like this because of us going to India and experiencing Diwali, and not only just dealing with the animal rescues that we're dealing with, but working with these, rescues from around the world. animal warriors conservation in India specifically, and then people started to fall in love with the the father daughter combo. Emily joined my. Let's say my TV show project, four years prior, and she ended up being almost like a secret weapon because she shines on the, screen and people are so touched by our relationship. I think just everything came together so nicely and it was filmed so beautifully that, there's something in it for everybody. you don't even have to be a huge fan of the classic veterinarian TV shows. There's so much involved in this that everyone will enjoy.

Tom:

Well, I want to get into some of that. you mentioned, Emily, and you know, it crossed my mind that, it's so cool how you two are getting along in these ventures. And I, I got to thinking, not every father and daughter Team could necessarily work that well together. you've got something going on there, is there a secret that you could pass along on, this kind of relationship?'cause it's really beautiful to watch on the film.

Cliff:

I mean, we don't always get along. Sometimes we argue, which is, normal. And, and we love and respect each other. So we, we deal with it sort of appropriately. I think Emily's very much like me. We're very go, go, go. We're very adventurous. obviously we love rescuing animals. you know, there's a part in the trailer and in the film where I talk about her being one of my best friends. that's not a line like. Her and I, now that she is 23, I think, I gotta think about it. yeah, she's 23 years old. like I would go and hang out with her. If she wasn't my daughter, I would hang out with her and grab a beer and, enjoy her company. it all just fits and, and we're not afraid to show that relationship on camera. So I think it's just

Tom:

I don't wanna give away too much about the documentary, but I, I wanna get into it a little bit of it. I mean, starting with India, I mean, anyone who's spent time in India knows how chaotic the cars, the animals, and the people on the streets, and you're working in all that kind of environment. Was it that bit jarring for you and Emily when you first arrived?

Cliff:

Yeah, and the one in the film was our second trip. prior to that, I had been to Jamaica and I had been to Greece where I ended up doing some work, shortly after a wildfire had destroyed a community. So I'd seen a, bit of hecticness. I was prepared for India, but Emily was not. When she went to India the first time she was 18, I think it was right after graduating. She hadn't been anywhere. She had not been really anywhere out of North America. So I tried to warn her because I had a general idea of what we're gonna experience. And it did overwhelm us. Definitely the traffic. It took us a couple of days to figure out how to cross the traffic.'cause there's no lights, there's no stop signs. There's seven or eight rows of cars and motorcycles and buses, and you just, it's like Frogger, the old video game. You gotta go forward. Go back a bit, shoot over to the side, you know, and hope you don't go splat.

Tom:

well, couple things, you know, struck me while watching the film. One thing that I think people will be surprised at the complexity of the operations you're performing. For example, you operated on a wounded fox and twice during the procedure. His heart stopped and you had to revive him. And honestly, I felt like I was watching a scene from Chicago Hope or er, it, it was so riveting. Here's a short clip from the film.

Cliff:

Omar. Come on buddy. Keep waking up. Keep waking up. While he's feeling that epi, he gets pounding again. It's like a jackrabbit. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. He's breathing on his own. Hey, good boy. Oh, there we go. Hi.

Tom:

what do you remember about that operation

Cliff:

Yeah, I remember every single second of, of that operation, or at least when, once, we recognized that the monitor wasn't picking up a heartbeat and that Miranda, the technician couldn't find one. I went into this sort of hyper focus mode. What I don't remember about that surgery are the cameras. As soon as. The poop hits the fan. a good surgeon, which I like to think I'm a good surgeon, a good surgeon becomes like this robot and laser focused. and it was only afterwards that, I saw the footage and I was just like, I didn't even realize the camera was like almost in my face while we're doing compressions. it was so unusual. surgeries normally go obviously a lot better, and To have the success that we did. that's very unusual. If an animal arrests under anesthesia, the chances of them recovering is very, very low, let alone twice. So, it, it's a great way to start the film, that's for sure.

Tom:

when it became clear that the fox, would survive you, you kind of tear it up and it seemed like it took a lot out of you, both physically and emotionally. does that happen a lot to you

Cliff:

It does, and it may even happen on this podcast, um, when I just, when I just talk about it, I, I tear up very very quickly. uh, see, it's already starting to happen. yeah, like. One of the things I had mentioned on there is, we, the entire veterinarian team, we become so involved and emotionally attached to this patient, whatever patient it is. And then when something critical like this happens, and we all start working together and I'm shouting commands about give a CC of epinephrine and lower the anesthetic and do this and do that, and everyone's doing their job and then. You don't have time to be emotional during that situation, right? You need to lead, you need to save this animal's life. So it becomes this giant release. And it is both emotionally and physically exhausting, but also incredibly energizing to see everybody come together and work hard like that. it's why I love my job there's a lot of talk about burnout in the veterinarian field, and for me, situations like that, and especially doing wildlife work, avoids burnout. it sort of reinvigorates my passion for this every single day. So, it's exhausting, and wonderful at the same time.

Tom:

Well, Emily used a, an interesting term to describe how they administer aid to the animals in India and, and that kind of environment. She called it cowboy medicine. Now they don't necessarily have all the modern tools at hand, but. It's clear that even like a well-educated, talented vet like yourself, you're learning some things from watching them work. give us your impression of the local team that you were working with there.

Cliff:

And I mean, in India it was special because none of them were veterinarians. None of them were technicians. animal Warrior Conservation Society are all engineers So they specialize in technical rescues, ones that require repelling, repelling down, or repelling up onto a, a balcony or something. Dangerous, dangerous rescues that require ropes and, and things of that nature. So to be able to see what they're able to do and they, taught me some things as well, which came in handy when I had to repel down to rescue a dog that was about to drown in a well. Being able to work together and taking their engineering side, and then taking my medical side, and then Pardeep's ability he's almost a, a wildlife whisperer, like what he does with that pigeon and all these different things. I learn passion, I learn, to be humble and to, utilize the skills that other people have. That term cowboy medicine is great that Emily, used. The thing is she's not, old enough to know the term MacGyvering. So she doesn't, and I'm talking about the old Richard Dean Anderson. Not the new one, the old MacGyver show. so yeah, we MacGyver things a lot and, and as a cowboy we kind of jump in and say, yeah, and then we check the temperature of the water afterwards.

Tom:

Well, I actually love that term.

Cliff:

yeah, it's a good one. the film opens with me repelling down a well and just gets crazier from there. So we're definitely cowboys.

Tom:

well to your point, you mentioned the pigeon, and you were ready to, go down on a cable to rescue this pigeon. Your daughter was like genuinely really concerned. If you fell, there's a lot of traffic. You'd be in big danger. where do you draw the line in terms of your personal safety?'cause I'm watching and thinking all this for a pigeon,

Cliff:

Yeah. I'll be honest, if things went wrong, yeah, we could have died. I had zero doubt that things would go wrong. had we end up having to repel over this sort of highway, I. Because I trusted the, the engineers, they knew how to set up the ropes. I had done repelling in the past. I used to compete in this sport called adventure racing, where we used to have to repel down mountains while we then jumped on bikes and rode for 12 hours, that sort of thing. So I, knew the safety mechanisms were there. but, where do I draw the line? I mean, sometimes the line's very blurry. It's very obvious when it comes to my children. Emily did not come with me on my second trip to Ukraine because I was heading deep into the war zone. So obviously I'm not gonna take her, but, when it comes to animals, I'm not, that worried about my safety and, maybe I got nine lives, or I used to have nine lives like a cat. I dunno how many I have now. Um, I don't wanna ask, but uh, when I find out that I've run out of lives, it won't matter anymore. So.

Tom:

Oh, wow. you know, another thing struck me. when watching the film, unlike at home, like in your practice, people bring their pets to you for medical treatment, but in these wild areas. It seems like half the battle is capturing the animals in the first place, and they do not see you as a friend or a savior. can you elaborate on that challenge?'cause it comes across pretty strong in the film.

Cliff:

Yeah, and it's both a problem, on these trips, but also with the work that I do at Shades of Hope, once a week up, north of Toronto, because we often have to. Again, MacGyver way to catch these animals and sometimes trick them, maybe get them to run down a certain path where we have a net set up that we can all of a sudden, trick them into, catching them into the net. It is definitely a difficulty, not only for, you know, they want to run away, but then it can get dangerous. that's the other thing is Okay. We've cornered them or we've got them on some sort of snare rope, but now how do we restrain them without getting bitten? In India specifically, a lot of the dogs unfortunately, have rabies, about 50,000 people a year die of rabies in India. Most of them are children. I've been attacked by a rabid dog. so there are dangers. And we just do what we can to be safe and get our immunizations and, celebrate with a beer afterwards. And, uh, and then we also talk about the case. That's another big one is I kind of jumped into this, but, but we would talk about cases beforehand and after hand. Okay, how are we gonna do this safely? Then we get it done and then afterwards. Me and the team will discuss how could we have done this better for the next time? and that's where you learn and just get better each time.

Tom:

I can feel your passion, but another thing that's evident in the movie Cliff, is your compassion. And like sometimes the animals don't survive, and you tried to save the life of a monkey that had been burned badly from electrocution. Now, what struck me was that when the monkey finally succumbeded to her injuries, you gingerly put her hands together and gently covered her with a blanket. And it was as if to say. If you die on my watch, you'll die with dignity. it, it's a powerful scene.

Cliff:

Yeah. And, that's exactly my thought is, just because they're gone, if you believe in it, just because the soul is gone, that doesn't mean you ignore, the We wanted this monkey to be remembered, and to at least be, handled properly and respectfully. and she ended up being, buried. properly and respectfully. I ended up getting a tattoo. The film ends. Most people don't realize it. The film ends with Emily and I getting tattoos. I have many of them, and most of them are related to my trips and I have a tattoo of a monkey. it's in memory of that monkey. So, I take very seriously what I do and animals deserve, as much respect as, we do, whether that's in life or in death.

Tom:

Well also you mentioned, Ukraine, cliff and we had a guest on a few years ago a nurse Mar Gattie, and she's part of a medical team that's been going to Ukraine, and once the war broke out they've been going to Poland to administer medical aid to those injured in the war. it's interesting because I know her crew have met people who have lost pets and they report. How devastating that is to the family. So tell us you've been to Ukraine twice. Can you briefly tell us a bit about the two, and in the second one in particular where you said it was like a life changing one?

Cliff:

Yeah. And the first trip was only about three weeks into the war. And, you know, the entire world was just taken aback by what was happening. you know, I think I view the world a little bit differently and my life a little bit differently after being there. So my daughter was on a volunteer trip on her own in Europe when I basically texted my three kids and said, Hey, your dad's going to the border, the Polish Ukraine border. And she said. Get me a ticket. I'm in Spain right now, I'll come join you. So we ended up going, three weeks into the war. And my main goal was I couldn't help the people, directly, but a lot of, refugees were fleeing the war, trying to cross into Poland, and they had their pets Maybe their pets were sick, or very commonly their pets were not vaccinated or they didn't have the paperwork.'cause who grabs the paperwork when you're fleeing a war, right? And so Poland and then the other countries that they're gonna be going to for safety, Germany and Italy, et cetera, they needed to know, these animals were not a danger. So this was something I could do to help the people get to safety by protecting and, and taking care of their pets. So it was incredibly. Heartfelt. It was incredibly impactful. We did spend one day in Aviv, delivering medicine both for people and for animals, and that's when I fell in love with the people of Ukraine. And when I came back and saw some of the images and, and some of the stories I knew right away. Even my wife said, you're, you're going back, aren't you? And, and I started doing some research and then about four months later in the summer, it'll be three years this July, I went by myself deep into Hake, and worked with animal rescue harky there basically at a vet clinic where the veterinarian had fled and. As we worked with this military unit the military unit would go through. Bombed out buildings or, were in, areas where there was fighting and they were finding animals injured. they would bring'em to the rescue and then I would treat them. And even at one point we dawned our flack jackets, like our bulletproof vests and our helmets, and drove into the war zone to deliver some medication, Again, not only for animals, we ended up Pharma Science, which is a pharmaceutical company in Montreal, donated$50,000 worth of human chemotherapeutics, primarily for breast cancer because the Ukrainians got their medicine from Russia. And all of a sudden they couldn't get these life-saving medications. So it ended up being my way of, helping the people without being a human doctor. And, it was scary and it was, again, those so energizing and, has changed my life forever. and the friends I made are like family now and, obviously I just wish for them to be safe.

Tom:

Well, well said. another thing that we cover a fair bit on our podcast is climate change and climate issues and that, and I'm wondering, in your work working with these animals, have you seen the impact that climate change is having on the world and and on animals in particular?

Cliff:

Yeah, definitely. So when I was in Jamaica, and I guess in Panama as well,'cause both in Jamaica and Panama, I worked with a turtle rescue, a sea turtle rescue. And what a lot of people may not realize is I. Most, marine reptiles, like turtles, their gender is assigned when they're developing in the egg, dependent upon temperature and as the temperature rises. As the average temperature rises, you get more and more, I hope I don't get this wrong. you basically get all females if it's over a certain temperature. So you can have one nest of turtles that are a hundred females, and then another nest that are a hundred males. So as the temperatures rising, we are having problems with these sea turtle populations. so that's something That is, near and dear to my heart. Also, when I was in there, I was working with the Arra Besa. This is in Jamaica, the Arra Besa Bay Foundation. they were dealing with planting coral because the coral were bleaching due to increased temperatures of the ocean waters, or the Caribbean in this, instance. so, climate change is, it's hurting us. it's hurting the animals, Fortunately, or unfortunately, we're gonna handle it much better than the animals are. And maybe that's why people don't take it as seriously, because they don't see the effects, that it's gonna have on the population of animals and how later on that's gonna hurt us. But, yeah, we definitely see it. And, and again, I just try and do my best to educate and support the organizations that I work with.

Tom:

Yeah. And then this isn't directly related to climate change, but I'm wondering. are the animals in places like India and uh, Egypt, Ukraine, is there temperament a lot different than what you're seeing here in Canada?

Cliff:

Yes, because the animals I see here, other than the wildlife work I do, it's cats and dogs. It's pets, right? And, they're, highly domesticated. Whereas in Egypt and in India, let's say, I. Although I worked with dog rescues, most of'em are street dogs, and unfortunately, some of these street dogs have not been treated properly. a very, very small population, almost minuscule population in India, does not have a love for animals. So almost everyone in India seems to be caring of the street animals as well. It's not unfortunately the, the same in, Egypt. So a lot of the dogs and a lot of the cats we're dealing with were terrified, were fear aggressive. and then the diseases are so different. that's another thing. The diseases and the injuries. the infections, the types of parasites are so different, so it's a real challenge whenever I go on these trips for all those reasons. The cultural differences, the differences in medication and supplies that we have, the species, the diseases, everything. Even the food. The food is so spicy. In India, it was a big, especially in Hyderabad, when we went, we went to Hyderabad specifically, and. people from other parts of India, new Delhi, Gowa. I did a bit of surfing and Gowa beforehand. They all said, whoa, the food's really

Tom:

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny, we, Sharon and I think we've traveled to, I dunno, 60 countries or so, but nothing has stayed with us like India. there's something about that country, good, bad, and otherwise that just impacts you, I think.

Cliff:

it's by far my favorite place. if I had to only go to one place to volunteer in the future, over and over and over again, it would be India.

Tom:

So, cliff wrap up soon. I mean, has the success of the documentary changed what you're, going to be doing now? are you gonna do more of these sort of things or what's your plans?

Cliff:

I mean, I'm definitely gonna be traveling and I'll definitely be sort of recording and, and journaling about my experiences. I actually signed with a publisher recently. We've got a, a book about my trip. Coming out in a little over a year. the film, I'll be honest, this was our last kick at the can. although we're so happy with it, there's just the reality of finances. unless a big, uh, broadcaster's listening and they wanna, they want to pick this up. It's a great TV show, check it out. But, uh, we're very, very happy with it and we're really happy with the, the success it's had. but, you know, there comes a point in time where I gotta, start saving up for my kids so that when I pass away, they got something to remember me by.

Tom:

Well, they'll remember you as one fascinating person, cliff. we didn't even scratch the surface on your other sidelines, you play the guitar, you do martial arts, you, do a regular podcast and. I understand you've been known to surf the waters near the Scarborough Bluffs in January. Now, I did note during the documentary you never seem to sleep. So is that your key? You just don't sleep. That's how you do so many things in a day.

Cliff:

People ask me that all the time. I sleep seven hours a night, very, very well. Now I, lie down and the second my head hits the pillow, I am passed out. The difference is, is. That gives me, let me do my math correctly. That gives me 17 hours a day. There's a lot you can do 17 hours a day. so that's part of it. I have this little hamster wheel in my brain that is constantly running and I just gotta keep going, going, going. So that's both my blessing

Tom:

Yeah. Well, I don't wanna go to your head, but you kind of remind me a bit of that, guy in the beer ad years ago that they labeled the most interesting man in the world because I think you may have a legitimate claim to that crown now,

Cliff:

I'll take it. I'll take it. That guy. That guy seems pretty interesting though. I bet you we haven't scratched

Tom:

That's true. Well, look, it's been really enlightening chatting with you today, Clem. I hope people go to TVO watch the documentary. It's so well done. people will be impacted by watching it and I thank you. You're a gem and I really appreciate you being on the podcast.

Cliff:

I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you.

Sharon:

Our next episode will air on September 1st, and we are really looking forward to this one. Ever since we started this podcast, there is a special place in Toronto that we have had our eye on for a potential episode. It's called The Spacing Store. And it sells all things Toronto related. If you are looking for a raccoon mug or a model streetcar, this is the place to go, but it is much more than just a retail store. They also publish an award-winning magazine that tackles Toronto's most critical issues, and they do it with top-notch writers and a presentation that is both artistic and engaging. You can argue that there are no more precarious businesses than storefront retail and magazine publishing, and yet these folks are excelling at both. We are going to explore how they have managed this rare feat.

Tom:

And finally, we have a favor to ask. Not since our first podcast have we asked our listeners to give us a review ever since my dentist sent me a request to rate him just five minutes after pulling my tooth. I resisted the urge to bother you for a review. But the truth is reviews do help increase listenership, and I think every one of our past guests deserve to be heard. They are inspiring people who make Toronto a better place to live. So we would like to give them a wider audience. We would greatly appreciate it if you could visit Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to our podcast and give us a rating. Hopefully it will be less painful than a visit to the dentist. And to close out, we have some good news to share. You may remember back in season one, episode eight, we interviewed Gordon Precious, who at the age of 94 set the Guinness record for being the oldest person in the world to go hella skiing. Well, you may not believe this, but last year. Gordon turned 100 and how did he celebrate? Well, that Rascal got back up that mountain and hell he skied again. Truth really is stranger than fiction. Congratulations, Gordon. Your name says it all. You are some precious. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in September.